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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:41 am Post subject: The horse: the stirrup |
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As we all know, very often the cavalry is the element in warfare often determining defeat or victory. And as we all know as well cavalry could not be used to it s full effectiveness before the invention of the stirrup. The stirrup allowed it s rider to strike a powerfull blow in the enemy through a spear or a lance. It was only alexander the great who managed to introduce a really effective cavalry force, god knows how.
I am starting to think that the uneffectiveness of cavalry before the invention of the stirrup is a myth. And who invented the stirrup? I have heard 2 version: The huns brought it to europe in the 5th century AD or tyhe mogols in the 12 and 13th centuries AD.
I have tried riding a horse without strirrups and exept for troth it is all just as easy without ( exept for jumping which IS pretty hard without stirrup) When countering I still had the same amount of control over my horse and it felt like that if I would have a lnce in my hand i could still strike a powerfull blow if only that lady who runs the riding place would allow me to ride with a lance in my hand...
So who knows more of any proof of the introduction of the stirrup? or it s effectiveness?? |
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Sharpe
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 339
Location: Talaverra, Spain, at this moment im tryin to take a french color so dont bother me with stupid stuff
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Huns 5th century AD, im almost certain thats the correct 1.
While riding without stirrups isnt hard at all it would be extremely hard to get any power behind a lance thrust w/out stirrups, you couldnt stand up and just the lances impact could be enough to knock the person backwards off there horse. Cavalry before the Stirrup was much different (and less effective) then post stirrup cavalry.
I also remember reading somewhere that the parithians used the stirrup rather early? any1 else heard of this.
The invention of the stirrup was one of the greatest improvements to mounted troops ever
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Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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[HWK]Theosis
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | if only that lady who runs the riding place would allow me to ride with a lance in my hand...
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Well, 3 thoughts on this statement....
1) Maybe she thought you meant something else when you asked her if you could ride with your "lance" in your hand.
2) Maybe she's concerned about possible lawsuits caused by you knocking other riders off of their horses.
3) Maybe she thinks it would scare the other kids at the mall for someone that is riding the mechanical childs horse in front of her store to show up at the store with a 12 foot lance ready for action.
 
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. I shall do something, even if I have to do it myself.
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Sharpe
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 339
Location: Talaverra, Spain, at this moment im tryin to take a french color so dont bother me with stupid stuff
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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" Maybe she thinks it would scare the other kids at the mall for someone that is riding the mechanical childs horse in front of her store to show up at the store with a 12 foot lance ready for action. "
loooooooooooooooool
i think that coulda been the reason theo 
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Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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[HWK]axlethehawk
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 1473
Location: Lancashire N.W. ENGLAND
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have just been left absolutely wetting myself at your comments Theo............very funny indeed m8. 
I hope S.B doesn't take offence...............well not too much anyways
hey S.B. I think you should post a picture riding a horse, minus the stirrups and charging, lance in hand.
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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON ) |
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[HWK]Theosis
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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On The Field of Honour Chasing down the enemy stragglers.
The battle hardened warrior giving his troops a fierce glance prior to him screaming.... CHARGE!!!
His lance in an upright position used when preparing to charge the enemy lines.
The mighty general upon what obviously appears to be a descendent of Bucephalus himself!
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. I shall do something, even if I have to do it myself.
El Shaddai lives! |
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[HWK]axlethehawk
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 1473
Location: Lancashire N.W. ENGLAND
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Is it me , or does S.B. seem shorter than usual ?
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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON ) |
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Sharpe
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 339
Location: Talaverra, Spain, at this moment im tryin to take a french color so dont bother me with stupid stuff
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:29 am Post subject: |
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its you axle, im pretty sure SB was always pint Sized
althoug im no giant at 5'8 1/2 meself either 
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Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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1m 69cm and growing lol.
fine I ll get a pic of myslef on my great charger in a kenyan field marching of to the beautifull rift valeay and vulcanic Ngong hills ready to charge the infidels! damn, no more infidels in kenya fine I ll go chopping down anglicans instead HAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAA (in an evil voice and in an evil mood, high on air |
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[HWK]Theosis
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Better make sure first to get that ladies permission....
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. I shall do something, even if I have to do it myself.
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LouisXIV
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: The horse: the stirrup |
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| [HWK]SittingBull wrote: | I am starting to think that the uneffectiveness of cavalry before the invention of the stirrup is a myth. And who invented the stirrup? I have heard 2 version: The huns brought it to europe in the 5th century AD or tyhe mogols in the 12 and 13th centuries AD.
I have tried riding a horse without strirrups and exept for troth it is all just as easy without ( exept for jumping which IS pretty hard without stirrup) When countering I still had the same amount of control over my horse and it felt like that if I would have a lnce in my hand i could still strike a powerfull blow if only that lady who runs the riding place would allow me to ride with a lance in my hand... |
It is possible that a very good rider can do all sorts of things on a horse without stirrups. I have seen some bareback riders do amazing stunts. However, if you want to forget about staying on the horse and be able to concentrate on killing your opponent and staying alive, some stirrups are very handy things to have. Further, if you want to wear any kind of armour, it will tend to make you top heavy, and stirrups are even more important.
More importantly than that, cavalry was usually made up, not of circus riders who could do amazing tricks, but the average farm hand who barely knew how to stay on. For large numbers of effective cavalry, you need stirrups.
All the versions of the fall of the Roman Empire indicate that it was Roman foot soldiers against barbarian cavalrymen. The Romans could win any battle, but the enemy could just ride around them. The Vandals, Visigoths, Goths, etc. had the stirrup.
Further, the Byzantine or (what became the) Holy Roman Empire had cataphracts sometime between 600 and 800 AD. Cataphracts: heavily armoured lancers on armoured horses. You can be sure that they had stirrups. |
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Voltigeur
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 208
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Holy Roman Empire was the Germans, The Eastern Roman empire became what we know as the Byzantines today though in their own time they referred to themselves as romans and everyone else called them greeks
Don't forget that riding with stirrups also allows you to couch a lance and also brace yourself for impact without fear of being knocked out of your saddle by the force of your own lance impacting on the enemy troops.
Alexander's Cavalry were efficient because of the way he used them, he usually destroyed the opposing cavalry and then tryed to get behind the enemy troops as his Infantry pinned them in place. For the most part Companion Cavalry fought with their lances overhand instead of couched, also I believe he had some units of Companion Cavalry armed with the 18 foot long Sarissa like his heavy infantry in order to have an effective anti-cavalry force(Which in mosaics is often seen being used underhanded...) while the rest carried a thrusting spear called a Xyston.
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[HWK]GeXozoid
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 610
Location: Dubrovnik, Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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no no no no, volt... holy roman empire title is a very discutable thing... as for the title was worn by the protector of the holy (western) church .. (byzantine empire could have called them selves holy roman empire aswell) .. also it was worn by WEST ROMAN EMPIRE, then by FRANKS afterwords by GERMANs (and the king otto) .. then it was in property of the habsburg monarchy... later on i think nappy made them take that title off... and thats the end off it!
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