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Sharpe · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:01 am Post subject: Wolfe Tone

(1763-1798)

Theobald Wolfe Tone

just a lil info

"That the influence of England was the radical vice of our Government, and that Ireland would never be either free, prosperous, or happy, until she was independent, and that independence was unattainable whilst the connection with England existed." - Theobald Wolfe Tone.

Theobald Wolfe Tone was a teacher and a lawyer and, although he was a member of the Protestant Ascendency, he was also one of Ireland's greatest patriots. He helped to create the organization known as the United Irishmen while he put aside the matter of religion entirely and fought for a free Ireland where members of all classes and religions could live together in harmony. A revolutionary to the end, Theobald remained true to this dream even after he was captured, as he took his own life to avoid giving the British the satisfaction of executing him.

The eldest son of a Dublin coach-builder, Tone was born in 1763. Raised as a Protestant, he enjoyed his youth as a privileged member of Irish society, receiving an excellent education, including the study of law at Trinity College. During the 1780's he also served as a tutor, at one point for the children of Richard Martin who would later be known as "Humanity Dick". Rumors later stated that Tone was possibly the father of one of Richard Martin's children.

Tone became a lawyer in 1789, and circumstances along with the great changes taking place in the world apparently inspired him. As an educated man he watched closely the events taking place in the American and French revolutions and although he was a man of some status, did not like the conditions that his fellow Irishmen lived under.

Tone and others founded the Society of United Irishmen in 1791. Originally a reform organization, the Society sought an alliance of the Protestant upper class and the Catholic peasantry. By 1794, however, the society combined an unprecedented national vision with a rejection of monarchy and an appeal for complete independence, factors that led to its being outlawed by the British Crown after betrayal by an informer. Because of his connection, Tone was exiled to America and by 1796 ended up in France.

"I have now seen the Parliament of Ireland, the Parliament of England, the Congress of the United States of America, the Corps Legislatif of France and the Convention Batave; I have likewise seen our shabby Volunteer Convention in 1783, and the General Committee of the Catholics in 1793; so that I have seen, in the way of deliberative bodies as many I believe as most men; and of all those I have mentioned, beyond all comparison the shamefully profligate and abandoned all sense of virtue, principle, or even common decency, was the legislature of my own unfortunate country. The scoundrels! I lose my temper every time I think of them!" - Theobald Wolfe Tone on the Irish Parliament

In Paris, Tone managed to get some support for his ideas, and managed to get some troops and supplies to assist the Irish in their efforts at freedom. But the organization in Ireland was full of British spies and efforts at revolution were squashed in 1796. Undaunted by this failure, Tone continued to try and gain support for the revolution in Ireland. But the combination of the British spy network and less than ample support from the French combined to thwart all his efforts. A further revolutionary attempt was made in 1798, with disastrous results for both Tone and the Irish participants.

The 1798 Uprising was a military catastrophe: the French and Irish forces were severely outgunned in the field and in one battle 2,000 revolutionaries faced 30,000 English regulars. The captured French were shipped home, but the Irish were all executed after their surrender. It is estimated that 30,000 Irishmen were killed in fighting that terrible summer: many of the victims were peasants who faced cannon with pitchforks, and a great number of these were women.

A further attempt to send French reinforcements was itself intercepted on October 11th, 1798 and among the captured was Theobald Wolfe Tone himself. He was quickly placed on trial and made this statement:

"From my earliest youth I have regarded the connection between Ireland and Great Britain as the curse of the Irish nation, and felt convinced, that while it lasted, this country would never be free or happy. In consequence, I determined to apply all the powers which my individual efforts could move, in order to separate the two countries. That Ireland was not able, of herself, to throw off the yoke, I knew. I therefore sought for aid wherever it was to be found… Under the flag of the French Republic I originally engaged with a view to save and liberate my own country. For that purpose I have encountered the chances of war amongst strangers: for that purpose I have repeatedly braved the terrors of the ocean, covered as I knew it to be with the triumphant fleets of that Power which it was my glory and my duty to oppose. I have sacrificed all my views in life; I have courted poverty; I have left a beloved wife unprotected, and children which I adored, fatherless. After such sacrifices, in a cause which I have always considered as the cause of justice and freedom - it is no great effort at this day to add the sacrifice of my life."
Tone was sentenced to death. He was returned to his cell and cut his own throat on November 12th, 1798 with a penknife. He died in great agony from the wound on November 19th, 1798.

Writing in 1969, Thomas Pakenham, author of "The Year of Liberty, said of Wolf Tone:

"Tone's posthumous achievements have been great and enduring. His shining virtues - vision, humour and self-sacrifice - set alight the imagination of later nationalists. He came to personify the tradition of violent revolution in Ireland. A hundred and seventy years after his death, its successful exponents honour him as few men in Irish history are honoured. Not the least of his achievements, is that, for later generations of Irishmen, he helped transform what would otherwise be remembered as a national catastrophe into a heroic struggle of a people against their oppressors, of Irish liberty against English tyranny."

I found him to be a very interesting historical figure, A true Irish Patriot who gave his life fighting against tyranny despotism and the opprsesion of his country , How I feel About Tone and the IRA is much how you all obviously feel about geronimo,.

so in conclusion Geronimo Wolfe Tone and the IRA are all heros and villains depending on the point of view of the person studying them
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Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HWK]SirWilliam · Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 288

Hi Sharpe

I enjoyed reading that and to be honest I didn't know who Theobald Wolfe Tone was until you posted that very informative thread. You have to respect an enemy, who will fight with basic weapons against a professional army with artillery, that takes a lot of courage. That's why I enjoyed making the early American Revolution maps, becasue I learnt a lot about the the militia and how they evolved from a gathering of activists armed with musket, blunderbuss and whatever else to a professional army under Geroge Washington.

Yours SW
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[HWK]SittingBull · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject:

sharpe, are you catholic?
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A Flemish gentleman with a sword is worth a warlord!

AVV-VVK

Sharpe · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject:

SB that has no relevence what so ever to the topic....................
_________________

Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HWK]axlethehawk · Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject:

My grand parents are / where very devout catholics , my grandfather is irish cathiolic and he would never agree to the actions of these cold blooded murderers.

BTW I have witnessed personal carnage caused by them.

If it wasn't for a change in my duty rota one night back in August 1989 when I'd been serving in the armed forces for a mere 15 months ( aged 18 ) then I too would have been one of their victims along with two other colleagues who were not so fortunate.

Invited for a late night dinner at the bosses house and some beers they where simply walking back into camp along the main road ( in Germany ) at approx. 10pm when they where gunned down in cold blood just a few hundred yards from the camp gates.
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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON )

Sharpe · Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:29 am Post subject:

Sharpe · Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:50 am Post subject:

and btw, enough abou the IRA ok axle? I dedicated this post to Wolfe Tone not the IRA, dont sideswipe this into an anti IRA post, My intent was to show some info on a little Known Irish patriot, who was brave enough to stand up against the tyrants who held his peoples land.
_________________

Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jark · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 97

Sharpe · Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:31 am Post subject:

"Sharpe, tell me plz, why do you try to say the others what to write and what not? "
#1 jark, because theo told us not to talk about the IRA in the public forum so asking Axle not to bring it up is perfectly fine.
#2 Anti american sentiments also do not belong in the history section and are meant to be put in the P & A

this Topic was not about the IRA or the indians when i started it, so plz if u want to talk about that put it in the P & A and i will most likely respond there.

on the other hand if you would like to discuss the topic (Wolfe Tone) plz do, if u want to talk about The extermination of the indians and the IRA then put it in the P & A

the 2 things u pointed out Jark were requests that would help adhere to forum rules, not as u said it "try to say the others what to write and what not? "
_________________

Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HWK]axlethehawk · Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:34 am Post subject:

Why did I bring up the IRA. hmmmmmmmmm. strangely you did it first Sharpe..................

Sharpe · Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:25 am Post subject:

I did not answer the question on my religon because, afterall this is the history board not the politics and RELIGON board.

What the IRA has done is no different from what the Indiuans did, The IRA bombed inocents, the Indians massacred defenseless settlers and frontiersmen then scalped them.

youve had friends killed by the ira, Ive had ancestors killed by the indians.
as i believe neither of us will change our opinions on this matter i believe its better to aggre to disagree. Cool

_________________

Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HWK]axlethehawk · Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:50 am Post subject:

thats a wrap as they say then m8y. cool . Cool

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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON )

[HWK]SittingBull · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:45 am Post subject:

But Sharpe, you ALWAYS dodge the important questions, you ALWAYS try to get out of further discussions, my USA remark was VERY relevant, my religion question was also VERY relevant, and yes it was right to bring up IRA and indians, this is a dicussion, we DICUSS and COMPARE things, that s how dicussion work and you should learn that, also don t dodge my questions, it make me very annoyed and it makes me think that you usually do not have any proper answer..... Wink

_________________

A Flemish gentleman with a sword is worth a warlord!

AVV-VVK

Sharpe · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject:

On another note about Wolfe Tone, if his rebellion had succeded with French help would that have doomed England in the Nappy wars?

Napoleon once said during during his preperation for the invasion of england that "it does not matter where I land, england or Ireland because if I land in either place i will have won" tthats not word for word but thats the gist of it.
_________________

Over the hills an over the main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain, King George commands an we obey, Over the hills and faraway!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jark · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 97

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