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THE DRAKE · Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Posts: 149

Excellent addition, I really like it. How many times have we played AC/FB battles, where your troops are all positioned around a enemy cannon, nobody else in sight, and the crew is still working away. Not only that, they fire! I think not.

This addition of the "Cossacks" games element of being able to capture enemy batteries is an excellent one. It reflects more accuratly historical reality. When cavalry rushed at cannon, the crew usuaully left, to shelter in infantry formations. Also, batteries were often captured and turned on their original owners.

This idea now that your cannon will have to be supported by nearby troops will also end to a degree the un-realistic option of massed batteries rolling forward, un-supported, that grape anything that comes near.

I like this addition and hope it stays for the final version.
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See you on the field,

THE DRAKE

de Burca · Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Austin,Texas

[HWK]axlethehawk · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject:

I've said it before and I'll reiterate it now!!

I've loved the fact I've been able to grape hundreds of men with one grapeshot and take out the majority of a cavalry regt. when using 2 or 3 guns simultaneously.

BUt I've always said that the guns where waaaaaaaay to strong in Ac-FB an dcould sometimes prevent attks being made by either side when there are several guns within the ranks of the enemy troops waiting to grape your men.

So at least now ( even though Ive not tested the strength of the arty yet ) I believe their killing distance and kill ratio is greatly reduced and this should be a great advantage to the game overall.

Yes I think it,s also good if the guns can be captured because at least this way you are forced to either destroy the guns before they are captured or the enemy gain them as part of their army and turn them against you.

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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON )

[HWK]GeXozoid · Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 263

I think you havent noticed that much before, but on real cannon ball fireing with cannon or howitzer you can make true historical damages! An the grape is cannons last defence! Today me and burca had a game, and we fired at each other until i have seen i am loosing to many troops this way so i just went on advance and that is the real thing!
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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is makeing a mistake "

Napoleon Bonaparte

de Burca · Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Austin,Texas

HWKBud · Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:48 am Post subject:

Capturing cannon, I am not too sure on this one, a lone Cossack/hussar travelling fast along the battlefield brushes past a 6 enemy artillery and WOW he has captured the lot, ok this is an extreme example.
In real life it took a 5 man crew of trained personel to operate a cannon and that does not take account of the men/boys who kept it supplied with amunition, yes the odd gun was turned around to repel any advancing enemy who might have wanted to try to retake the guns, but for captured cannon to become a fully functional artillery piece is far too un realistic, spiking the cannon is the far more realistic aproach.
The charge of the allied cavalry at Waterloo reached the French artillery line but troopers did not un mount and blast the lancers sent by Napoleon with grape, the only scenario I can see captured cannon being used was if an infantry regiment did the capturing, they would have the extra man power to fire a few rounds off.
I prefer to keep cannon as they are in the FB game but with a reduction in the devastation grapeshot can cause.
Chers Bud
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jib · Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 64 Location: Somerset, England

It would probably be better to have seperate crew from a cannon, and you 'load' them on to a cannon. In an old game 'stronghold' you had to load engineers on to a catapult, otherwise you just had a useless piece of wood. At least this way you could kill the gun crew off, or they loose moral and run away.
towards the end of the great french cavalry charge at waterloo some french gunners used abandoned british guns to fire grape into inf squares. One regiment was said to have been 'dead in square'.
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de Burca · Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Austin,Texas

[HWK]GiNg3RfiSh · Joined: 20 Apr 2004 Posts: 285 Location: -=[England]=-

nice to see that the art in gexs mod also has less life.
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[HWK]axlethehawk · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject:

One solution I could suggest would be the following.

How about we play our battles with the simple rule......... "if you manage to capture enemy guns you must destroy them".

At least that would dispell the unrealistic concept of guns being captured and turned against their previous users in quick succession without the enemy having gun crews available to use them so quickly

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[hwk] axlethehawk ( DIPLOMATIC LIAISSON )

Sharpe · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:22 am Post subject:

i agree with everything bud said, it is extremely rare for 1 side to capture cannons then use them against thre former owners. captured cannons were trophys not weapons really, after austrelitz nappy melted down the captured cannon an made a damned monument lol, most captured guns were never used again!!!!!!!!! at assaye the brits captured near 100 guns mid battle, they did not use them during the battle an destroyed all but about 16 which they took into service,

i find the idea that now 1 lone cav man can capture an entire battery rediculous, plz put it back the old way

u lowered the cannons life points an thats plenty, now a cannon will be destroyed b4 it can close in on a battle line alone, i completely an utterly agree with bud, i think cannons should be uncapable unless u can have the cannon an crew seperated, otherwise its just stupidly unrealistic like in the old cossacks

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[HWK]Greenwarrior · Joined: 20 Apr 2004 Posts: 278 Location: New Jersey

yep agreed...

Now cannon r so weak, that only a fool would roll them down the line, with 3 good shots and they r dead and gone, it should go back to normal imho

Green!
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"Next to a battle lost, the greatest misery is a battle gained"

[HWK]GeXozoid · Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 263

Ok ok ok stop shouting... will think about it

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is makeing a mistake "

Napoleon Bonaparte

[HWK]GiNg3RfiSh · Joined: 20 Apr 2004 Posts: 285 Location: -=[England]=-

so hopefully i shouldnt ever be grped by axle again lol yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!! lol
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[1776]Daddio · Guest

Gex,

I know Im not a member here but would like to make and entrt into the debate here.

I have long time thought that art was too powerful. You use them much more like tanks than field artillary. There almost industructable and can cause massive damage almost at will.

I dont know much about European warefare but I am a little more knowdgeable about the "War between the states" as we prefere to call it down here in the south.

In the war between the states art was normally behind the lines, fireing over the heads of the formed up lines, concentrated at times to bombard "hot spots" before makeing an assult.

Grape was a last ditch tatic used to protect themselves. (although they were often moved up to cover against a large sclae assult like at Gettysburg against Pickets charge. even at this normally a detachment was assigned to protect the gun crews from attack.

Your mod is the first time since playing Cossacks/CA/FB that I feel they are realisticlly portrayed.

Only suggestion I would make is to be able to assign a detachment to cover your cannon. That would cover them with fire and protect them when attacked. Cossacks has this feature, Im unsure about AC/FB.

Truth is that without support all gun crews of the day were easily overrun and captured, hardly any were armed, and if even a small calvary charge made it to an unprotected gun crew they were toast. And if a volly was made within range and thte crew was not able to get off any defenceive fire, yes they were dead.

As far as captureing the cannon and turning them on there former owners. Sure it happend all the time. Perhaps they were not as accurate or as fast firing as their former owners but getting some rounds off were common if the position were lost. Most units of the day knew this and were very protective of the artillery guys.

A gun battery was normally the last poistion to be overrun, as most defencive positions were centered around them.

Again, mabey I dont belong in this forum but thout I woulf put in mt 2cents worth.

I'd vote for leaving it as it is.

[1776]Daddio